I’m trying to get my head around the current craze for screaming “Flip flopper!” at political candidates who change their minds.
Hey, flip flopping works for me when I make pancakes. They don’t cook as well when you cleave to consistency and let the batter lie where it lays until one side is burnt and the other is half done.
Obama’s remarks on Iraq have stimulated the latest media flip flop feeding frenzy.
Oh my God! A presidential candidate is open to adjusting his policies based on new information and further thought! Can we trust him?! Shouldn’t his ideas remain frozen in place, like George Bush’s?
Of course not. Life is nothing but a testimony to flip flopping.
I loved being married to my first wife. Until we decided to get divorced. Flip flop (just like John McCain).
I liked the Honda del Sol that I owned quite a few years ago. Until the detachable top started squeaking and interior rattles appeared. Flip flop.
So it goes. For all of us. An AP story notes that voters are forgiving of flip flops, probably because they’re so much a part of their own lives.
And though there can sometimes be criticism about shifting positions, voters usually forgive and forget. For one thing, a willingness to hone policy, add nuance or even change one’s mind — especially when new information comes to light — is not in itself a bad quality in a leader.
Give me a flip flopper over a flop any time. Instead of being led by a politician who’s driving straight into a policy brick wall, I’d rather see some smoothly executed U-turns.
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I didn’t used to be among those who dislike the media so much but I have joined the crowd this election cycle. There are so many of them and they are desperate for viewers; so they don’t just tell us what happened, they tell us what we are supposed to think about it. Whether the journalist (using that term loosely… very loosely) is right or left wing, it’s the same for the obnoxiousness. I wonder how their ratings are doing. They are getting a lot less of my time and I find most of what I want to know by reading the actual words at newspaper sites online. I do not want them telling me what I should think or what it means. That’s my job and who are they, except someone highly paid, to be qualified to do it anyway!
Of course. Changing a policy position in the face of new information is smart. But that’s only as far as it goes.
By contrast, Gordon Smith regularly flips his position at election time – only to flop back after the election. As I wrote last month, it’s not the pre-election flip, it’s the post-election flop.
http://www.blueoregon.com/2008/06/its-not-the-pre.html
Certainly, voters rarely punish a politician who flip-flops towards their own position. That’s what Gordon Smith is counting on. But when voters sense that the flip-flops are well-choreographed moves designed to win favor, that’s when the flip-flop undermines the voters’ trust.
And that’s the point. Gordon Smith can’t be trusted.
I’ve noticed that people are seldom preturbed when their candidate “filp-flops”, but when the opposing candidate does so, all hell breaks loose.
It is distubing that McCain, a known flip-flopper, is the only alternative, but here are just a few of the reasons why I won’t vote for Mr. Obama.
** I simply do not believe in redistribution of the wealth theories and this is what Obama is all about. As an equities and commodity investor I stand to lose more of my profits to capital gains taxes which Obama will try to raise if he becomes president. If he is successful in doing this, there will be a disincentive to invest in instuments subject to capital gains and there will be more people seeking out investments like tax-free bonds. This would be bad for the stock market, for start-up companies offering IPO’s, etc. and for liquidity in commodity markets. It will be harder for entrepreneurs to get capital for growth and for producers to hedge their respective commodities and forecast operational costs…not a good environment for business and innovation. When you tax success, you stifle it. Values of 401K retirement plans will fall with the markets and retirees will be hurting.
Another thing about Obama. If he is successful in creating a national health-care system, people who make good money will be paying for the health care of those who don’t, won’t or can’t including illegal aliens. Maybe this is OK if there is no disadvantage to those who pay into the system, however…
There are only so many doctors. With everyone, including those here illegally, having equal access to these doctors there will be longer waits and more difficulty getting care. Canada has a socialized health care system and everyone knows they have long waits to see specialists. They have only a fraction of the US population and they have problems with their health-care system. On what basis should I believe that Obama is smart enough to create an efficient health care beaurocracy for a nation of some 300+ million legals and up to 20 million illegals? I don’t want to pay for this experiment which I believe is doomed to fail, but it sure is a good idea for getting votes.
But he makes you feel so warm and fuzzy inside, doesn’t he?
Your right McCain is not all that we would like, but Obama would be a nightmare. No guns, no border, and give your money to those that won’t work, maybe Brian won’t complain about giving up his land so the person that doesn’t have land can have some, that’s most likely a different story.
It is amazing to me how much the right wing, talk radio and fox, have managed to terrify some Americans regarding the left. People like me only want to destroy the average person’s ability to have anything. The right is supposed to be the great terror fighters and yet they have become the greatest feeders of and on terror. And where they don’t mind someone limiting people’s freedom of expression, the Constitutional freedoms originally guaranteed, or personal sexual beliefs, heaven forbid anyone touch their money or possessions. I know I shouldn’t be smiling but I am. Maybe it’s a reaction to 7 years of the right calling all the shots and doing so much damage to our country that no left-winger could even possibly begin to top it and yet what is the fear? That it might be a leftie who gets in office. Karma? *s*
“It is amazing to me how much the right wing, talk radio and fox, have managed to terrify some Americans regarding the left.”
*No, they have simply shown there are different ways of looking at things. People are smart enough, for the most part, to sort it out and decide what is true for them. The success of Fox and talk radio is because they make sense to more people. Air America failed because it didn’t.
“People like me only want to destroy the average person’s ability to have anything.”
*Of course you don’t want that, but you don’t understand that taking money from the successful to finance entitlements to those who aren’t is actually destructive to economic growth which is the very mechanism by which the unsuccessful can improve their situation. This is their best chance, not handouts. France’s economy has been badly damaged by this.
“The right is supposed to be the great terror fighters and yet they have become the greatest feeders of and on terror.”
* This is sheer crap. It is the terrorists that create terrorism. By transference, the terorist fanatics blame the failures of their own lives and civilizations on others. They are brainwashed by an extreme religious mindset festered by a victim mentality and incredible ignorance.
“And where they don’t mind someone limiting people’s freedom of expression, the Constitutional freedoms originally guaranteed, or personal sexual beliefs, heaven forbid anyone touch their money or possessions.”
*By the very definition of conservatism, no true conservative will support anything that violates Constitutional freedoms. The problem is that people get confused by the religious right associating with the republican party in the same way that communists and socialists are associated with democrats. Either extreme is outside the bounds of the respective parties.
“..heaven forbid anyone touch their money or possessions.”
And so you feel I should be punished by a higher tax rate because I am successful. I learned to do something well, worked hard at it and now I have a large income. Does this mean I owe a greater portion of it to those who couldn’t succeed? Lets give medals to all the kids in the race so the ones who finished last won’t have their feelings hurt. Of course the one who finished first wonders why he should bother to try to acheive when he can finish last and get the same reward. That makes no sense and goes against the natural order of things, the struggle of life, suvival of the fittest and natural selection. It won’t work. You can’t mess with mother nature.
“Maybe it’s a reaction to 7 years of the right calling all the shots and doing so much damage to our country that no left-winger could even possibly begin to top it..”
The current economic mess we’re in is the fault of both sides of the aisle in congress. They’re inept, afraid of their own constituencies with few who have the guts to step up and lead. Dems have been in charge the past two years and there has been no improvement.
“..what is the fear? That it might be a leftie who gets in office. Karma? *s*”
The fear is getting an ideologue in office. That would be bad karma.
As usual, we disagree, Condor. I won’t repeat everything as I’ve said it all before, but there is one point you might consider. Terrorists create violent acts, attacking innocent people, to inspire terror and get their way politically. They do it based on lack of power to directly attack. Yes, we have been attacked by such people. The world has been attacked by such people but most of what has fed on it since has been political people trying to use it to gain power. Remember all the condition yellow or red or whatever before the ’04 election. You hear it constantly that we should be afraid very afraid as only republicans can keep us safe. Fear is used as a tool to gain political power.
If Americans had been as afraid of violence in the past, we’d have stayed a British colony, nobody would have come west to settle unknown country.
Terrorism attempts to inspire something in people but it’s the choice of the people whether they let it and that can be politically inspired terrorism as well as the actual violent act. We might be attacked again, most likely will, but if we have given up all of our rights as citizens, allowed our government to rule over us with no say in anything, we will have lost everything this nation valued and it won’t take that terrorist doing it… not the original one anyway. We don’t have to let terrorism succeed even if we can’t prevent every violent act intended to inspire it.
The main thing is that we as a people decide what our values are. Now your values may be different than mine which is why we vote for at least as long as we have freedom to vote before someone uses terror as an excuse to take away that right supposedly to keep themselves safe (they call it martial law and it’s in place just in case…)
I have lost none of my rights. I have nothing to hide. In times of war, it is necessary to “tighten” things up a bit. How else do we catch these guys? I understand that. There was government imposed rationing during world war II. People understood that as well. When the war was over, it ended. No big deal. Have you noticed we haven’t been attacked in nearly seven years? Credit the intelligence community and this is something the Bush administration seems to be doing right.
Also, we are now winning in Iraq causing Obama to back-peddle on his immediate troop withdrawal stance. The anti-war crowd hates that. They’re invested in us losing. Oh my God! What if we actually win this thing and thwart Iran’s ambitions and gain some control, stability and peace in the region? It can’t be good for Obama to be against that. Hence his new stance.
so uh what do you have to say if the Iraqi government links up with Iran? Say the Shiites when they get control don’t go along with the Bush plan and have one of their own? Was the plan for Iraq all along to control it forever?
The surge is an uncertain deal until it stops. Nobody doubted that a lot of military on the ground could temporarily keep order. Our military is good and I don’t think anyone would deny that, but do we stay forever at this level? If we do, who pays for it?
And if you read what Obama said all along, he hasn’t changed. He was interpreted by a lot of people on both sides but he has always said what he is saying now. Too bad people don’t read his speeches instead of listening to the right or the left pundits explain them.
I don’t think anybody has a hope for anything but a successful Iraq. It would take a monster to wish more bad things on those people as they have suffered for so long under violence, but until we pull our troops out, we won’t know what will happen.
If we stay forever, are you in favor of tax increases to pay for it? Are you in favor of even paying for what we are already doing or is borrowing from China okay with you?
And yes, people sacrificed in WWII. They knew how to turn out ships and this bunch couldn’t even get our troops properly armored. Worse they built buildings that electrocuted them in their showers. Incompetence doesn’t begin to describe what has gone on. Bush asked citizens this war to go shopping… We will never know whether bin Laden wanted to attack us again or it was good work that stopped him. What we do know is that his bunch attacked around the world during those 7 years and we also know he never comes after the same place again right away.
Did you notice that the Bush administration has asked the British to go after bin Laden in Pakistan, strategic strikes by us too? That was what Obama advocated awhile back and was put down for it. I will put his good judgments on this whole situation against McCain’s all the way.
I won’t post again on this topic as I am pretty sure I’d be repetitive if I did. Hopefully whoever gets in come November will do a better job than the last administration. I think it’d be hard to be worse.
100,000 troops are scheduled to be phased out of Iraq through next year. There are no plans or desire to continue on there “at this level”.
The spirit of Bin Laden is alive and well. Domestic attacks by jihadists have been thwarted by intelligence. Kudos to them.
I think I found some common ground when Rain said: “Worse they built buildings that electrocuted them in their showers. Incompetence doesn’t begin to describe what has gone on.”
Can you imagine how great our health care will be when the government manages that?
The surgeon exclaims, “Oh shit! You mean it was his left kidney that had the tumor in it? This isn’t Jose Gonzales?”
okay i said i wouldn’t post again but laughing is okay, right? *s* and yes, we have common ground. I am distrusting of government as it has been– both sides. I am hopeful for better ways and that’s probably the difference.. but as Reagan said… trust and verify!
okay i said i wouldn’t post again but laughing is okay, right? *s* and yes, we have common ground. I am distrusting of government as it has been– both sides. I am hopeful for better ways and that’s probably the difference.. but as Reagan said… trust and verify!